Question: I’m refining the deck layout on the 41′ voyaging boat I’m fitting out from bare hull. She will be sailed as a sloop, but fitted with an inner forestay for heavy weather. I am currently weighing the benefits of keeping that sail on a furling unit versus hanking it on to a removable stay. As she will be sailed shorthanded and pointed away from the equator, I like the safety and flexibility of having the sail ready to go on a furler, but worry about the problems of tacking the genoa through the 5′ slot between headstay and inner stay when sailing in normal to light conditions. I am wondering what your experience is with this, and how you balanced the equation.
Q&A: Staysail Stay: Roller Furling And Fixed Vs Hanks And Removable
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On my boat, a heavy displacement 36ft cutter, that I sail single handed or with one crew, I have a removable inner forestay, on which I hank on the staysail or the storm jib. This system is very secure, nothing to jam etc. In my opinion, this is far more important than being able to furl a staysail. The thought of trying to fit a storm jib to a furler, when you really need it i.e. in high winds and seas, frightens me. In light conditions, I move the inner forstay, and the bagged staysail to a tang on the port side deck. I can then easily tack the genoa. Incidently, I also have a trysail, on a separate dedicated track, bagged on deck. In 17 years of voyaging, I have seldom needed these systems, but when I have, they have proved invaluable.
Hi Bill,
Sounds like we are on the same page since your boat would fit into our recommended size for removable stays and hank on staysails. On boats the size of ours—probably about twice the weight and sail area—things change and, at least for us, the advantages of having both sails on roller furlers outweigh the disadvantages. More on that here.
Like you, we have a storm trysail ready to go at all times.
Youi will learn how to swing the bow over and pull like hell to get the sail through the slot. Sometimes the wind does it for you 1st time and it’s like winning the lottery. Yeah sometimes it just doesn’t go thru, or so it seems, so you adjust and learn (to circle, so the wind does the work.)
Hi Tom,
We have been tacking in this way for over 20 years and I can’t remember a time where it has caused us any problems.
John
i am in the process of a DIY standing rigging project. My headsail furler is original equipment on my Nordic 44, a Harken MK I or II. The picture of yours looks identical. It has always been a hard pull. I have cleaned out the upper swivel bearings and washed out the lowers as well and both units spin freely and well. I recall reading that you had yours rebuilt twice. What was rebuilt? My concern is that the foil links or those parts that rotate around the forestay, may be worn out. I haven’t taken them apart as I understand Harken no longer supports the old furler I have. So, did you replace the connectors in your foil? Your thoughts will help me decide what to do while the mast is out. I have really enjoyed my subscription and refer to your books often. Thank you.
Hi Mike,
I don’t think the issue is the foil links, even if they were worn, and ours are not significantly after many miles and years, that would not add much friction.
The problem is more likely to be the bearings and races. They may spin freely by hand, but under load they can still impart a lot of friction due to flats and imperfections from wear. First thing to try is One Drop lubricant: https://www.morganscloud.com/2018/07/25/5-great-rigging-hacks/
If that does not fix it the bearings need a refurbishing. I had mine done by Harken, but that was some years ago and they may not offer that service any more for older units.
So if neither of the above work, it’s probably time for replacement.
I hope this post will not be too lengthy. So, we are likely to go for an inner forestay (we had a meeting with the rigger to discuss and he will quote some options). As John advised me in another article we will go for a stay parallel to headstay with runners to aft.
The inevitable question was will it need to be removable or fixed. For both are options for hanked on or furling. I am heavily torned and do need some guidance in decision making.
We have now a rather large genoa and our last experience in increasing winds was not very pleasant and we had difficulties furling the genoa too late. (I know: reef as soon as you think about it). I also realized that furling a large genoa is not an easy task, especially for my wife. We plan to go offshore and have an ocean crossing planned by end this year. We have a Moody 425, displacing 25k-27k lbs (with family onboard)
1) I very much like the idea how John uses his cutter by setting both sails and use 2 sails to compensate for 1 larger headsail. I can imagine that sail handling is more work with 2 sails, but lighter in efforts. Many people I spoke or read about uses the inner forestay in either or. I.o.w. the staysail comes out only in heavier weather and this makes the case for a removable staysail. I like removable forestay, but will it make sense with a smaller top jib sail (up to max 110%) and more frequent use?
2) We have both main and head sail on furlers. While working good, I am a bit wary from time to time and like to have an alternative option on board just in case and therefore leaning towards a hanked-on stay sail. However, if I am to use the staysail in conjunction with the jib top is it not better to have furling to allow for incremental adjustments in coordination with a furled head sail to maintain good slot and match each others size?
Additionally, we carry a (deflated) rib which will be stored on foredeck during offshore trips. In inflated state it would fit in case of removable forestay (unless we relocate the liferaft to somewhere else). Just another thing to think about for us.
Hi Pepijn,
That’s a hard one since it’s so usage specific. That said, this is how I think about it. Sloops are a handier inshore with frequent tacking. But even that is only true if you can get away with a reasonable sized genoa, say max 125%. Once the genoa gets big, as you found, it becomes such a pain that a true cutter makes more sense even inshore.
So that’s your first decision: are you going to be a full cutter using both headsails up wind with the jib top high cut and only about 100% and get rid of the Genoa.
If the answer is no, then the staysail stay must be removable—decision made.
However, if you want to be a full cutter then the decision comes to one of convenience and is up to you. That said, in our case on the M & R 56 we started with a removable stay and then changed to a roller furler after two years and never regretted it.
More on cutters here: https://www.morganscloud.com/2015/09/17/12-reasons-the-cutter-is-a-great-offshore-voyaging-rig/